WorldRailFans

Models of Bavarian branchline passenger coaches

Studying drawings of and articles on Bavarian branchline passenger coaches, searching my literature for train pictures and thinking about which of these could have been used on the branchlines I am interested in the most, I try to get an overview on the available models. This is my model list up to today:



Branchline coaches with a wheelbase of 365 and 368 cm and wooden outer walls:


BCL probably 1880-86 (wheelbase 365 cm)

CL probably 1880-86 (wheelbase 368 cm)

PBL probably 1880-82 (wheelbase 365 cm)

These brass models are announced by Schifferdesign, see here: http://www.schiffer-design.de/frame/f8h0.htm



Branchline coaches with a wheelbase of 500 cm:


GwL bay 96 (Roco)

BPostL bay 01 (Roco)

PwPostL bay 00 (Trix)

BCL bay 05 (Fleischmann)

PwL bay 05 (Fleischmann)

CL bay 06b (Roco)

PwPostL bay 06 (Roco)

Up to my knowledge, Röwa made kits of short Bavarian branchline coaches, too, but I do not know exactly which ones.



Branchline coaches with a wheelbase 600 cm:


BCL bay xx (Bavaria; brass model)

BL bay 97/22 (Roco)

CL bay 01 (Trix)

BPostL bay 01 (Roco)

CL bay 02a (Trix)

PwL bay 02 (Roco)

CL bay 06 (Roco)

BCL bay 09 (Trix)

CL bay 11 (Trix)

CL bay 11a (Roco)



What I try to find out is, which coaches were probably used on my home branchline Neustadt - Königshofen which was opened in 1892. I know that this branchline got two new D VII so it would be likely that also new coaches, i.e. at least CL, Post- and Pw-coaches, were send there. However, in 1892 no new CL coaches were produced. So what coaches could have be used. I did not find any hint in the available literature. Unfortunately the local newspaper closed a few years ago, and the former editor and owner refuses all requests for access in his private archive. I could only have a chance because I once worked for this newspaper as a reporter (well, not on 1892…). But such a private contact must be prepared carefully.

Now, this are my questions:


Question 1: Beneath the above cited ones, do you know other models of Bavarian branchline passenger coaches?


Question 2: Do you know how new branchlines were equipped with rolling stock? Which coaches could have been given to my home branchline in 1892?


Thanks for all hints and

Greetings from the Baltic Sea

Christoph



P.S.: My literature:


Born, E. (1960). Die Entwicklung des Wagenparks der Bayerischen Staatseisenbahnen. Jahrbuch des Eisenbahnwesens (pp. 186-199).


Konrad, E. (1984). Reisezugwagen der deutschen Länderbahnen 2: Bayern, Baden-Württemberg, Baden. Stuttgart: Franck.


Zintl, R. (1977). Bayerische Nebenbahnen. Stuttgart: Motorbuch Verlag.


Bleisweis booklet on the branchline Neustadt-Königshofen.


Divers journals.

Christoph, I have never heard of any kits from Röwa, but Pola did make some kits at one time. From what I remember they were very nice, and fully up to the standard of Roco, Fleischmann and trix, so no problems mixing. I don't remember which exact types were made, I just remember that the wheel base was quite short.

I think Pola inherited the Prussian T3 from Röwa, which is why it was not in the Roco range. Maybe there was also a connection between Röwa and Pola with the passenger coaches...

Pola, Rowa, RaiMo, M&F, BillerBahn, Merker Verlag were all linked at one time but not at the same time. I still long for a rebirth of the RaiMo range of exKBayStsB kits and I collect as much information/kits about the range as possible. It is surprising how many small (and not so small) companies had a thread running through them, does anyone recall the connection between Dirk Ade, Herr Raucheneckers, MP Modellbau, MicroMetaKit, BavariaModellBau?

Christoph, I too would assume, that a new branchline got new built coaches.

But it seems not to be correct, that 1892 no new CL were produced.

According to the "Renumbering plan for coaches 1930", Branchline coaches 8001-9999, pages 5 and 6, the coaches 8807 - 8835 were built 1892.

This includes the following CL:

<pre>

No. No. No. Sketch Build

1930 District 1923 Bavarian 1913 Period

---------------------------------------------------

8807 Augsburg 09172 18381 563 1892-95

8808 Augsburg 09173 18382 563

8810 Nürnberg 09204 18374 542 1891-95

8811 Nürnberg 09205 18377 562 1891-96

8812 Nürnberg 09206 18378 562

8813 Nürnberg 09171 18379 563

8814 Nürnberg 09172 18380 563

8815 Regensburg 09204 18375 562

8816 Regensburg 09205 18376 562

</pre>

This matches also the build period entries in the coach inventory of 1913 (given above as comment).

Build period entries in the coach inventory of 1897 should be the same .


My favorite branchline, Haßfurt - Hofheim, opened March 15th, 1892, also got new rolling stock:

- 2 x D VII

- 2 x BPL

- 2 x CL (supposed 18379 and 18380)

- 2 x GwL

(Source: Bleiweis booklet, Operation plan from Dec 10th, 1891)


I will send you a carbon copy of the Renumbering plan 1930 for Branchline coaches with the build period time frame 1891-1892, so you will have a hint, which coaches possibly could have been send to your branchline.

Georg,

your contribution is of exactly a type why I like John´s website so much. I had a careful re-check of my 1897 inventory and indeed I had overlooked 17 CL from 1892/93. The figures are quite small, maybe I should have put away my glasses!


Another problem: The building of the branchline started 1892 (March), the official opening was September 1893. The locomotives for the line were two D VII which were delivered in 1892 to the K.Bay.Sts.B. Would they take coaches of building year 1892 or 1893? Anybody has a supposition based on reasons?


So at the moment, apart from D VII 1855 and 1856, I presume the following (no hint in the Bleisweis booklet on the Königshofen-Neustadt line on coaches):

- 2 CL as Georg meant ("Normale" 1890).

- 2 GwL (another was given to the line in 1899; "Normale" 1890, series 18687-18736)

- 2 BPostL ("Normale" 1890, series 18027-18034 or 18735-18040)


Greetings from the Baltic Sea



How likely is it that the district of a coach was the same in 1892 and 1930? With other words: can the 1930 district can give a hint to the original region of employment of the coach?


Greetings from the Baltic Sea

Christoph

Christoph,


I think that the models from Schifferdesign are almost the same as the old RaiMo/Pola kits.


Does the absence from your list of the big Roco CLBay10a (I think that is correct?) six wheel coaches indicate that they were not Nebenbahn stock but only cascaded onto branchlines in later years?


Tim

Tim,

your are talking of the C3i bay 16, don't you?

This was basically a coach for main lines at that time. They went to branch line service in the very late era II and of course in era III.

Just by the way: the last supplement of the folder collection (German: Lose Blatt Sammlung) of "Die deutschen Reisezug- und Güterwagen" has a long chapter on the evolution of Bavarian coaches. Certainly this does not cover the coaches in detail, but the history of the development of Bavarian coaches is well given.

Tim,

thanks for the hint, that remembers me I read something sometime...Ah, yes found:


As often I have to agree with Martin, this time twice

1. Those 3 axle or 6 wheel coaches were basically intended for mainline purpose in that times.

2. The exception proves the rule:


There is the BC3i bay 07, Sketch 129 of the inventory 1913.

In total 33 coaches were built 1907-1908.

2 of them were built 1907 for branchline use with air hose couplings for branchlines and steering axles for 150 m.

I think Roco had a model of this coach too.

Martin and Georg,


Please remember that I only "thought" that it was correct and I did guess that the coaches were only cascaded onto branchlines in later years. If you look carefully at Schleching you can find an old RaiMo exBay coach (the same type as Schifferdesign) finishing its days as a store room.


Please also note that H&P are threatening to release some nice LAG coaches-that would be nice!


Tim

Hello,


in order to develop a founded supposition which coaches could have been used on the Königshofen-Neustadt branchline in 1893, I had a closer look at other Franconian branchlines. So, here are some information on Franconian branchlines: year of first service, length of line in the beginning, number of daily pairs of trains in the beginning, and rolling stock.


Branchline Gemünden-Hammelburg (later: Gemünden-Bad Kissingen)

Opening: 1884

Length: 27,8 km

Daily traffic: 2 pairs of trains

Rolling stock:

- 3 D VII

- 3 PostL

- 3 BCL

- 3 CL

- 3 GWL

- 12 goods wagons for stone transport


Branchline Haßfurt-Hofheim

Opening: 1892

Length: 15,5 km

Daily traffic: 2 pairs of trains (shorty after opening: 3 pairs)

Rolling stock:

- 2 D VII

- 2 BPostL

- 2 CL with conductor´s department (Bleiweis supposes 18379, 18380, delivered in 1892)

- 2 GWL


Branchline Neustadt-Königshofen

Opening: 1893

Length: 23,25 km

Daily traffic: 2/3 pairs of trains (3 on market days)

Rolling stock:

- 2 D VII (probably 1855, 1856, delivered in April and May 1892)

- ???

Unfortunately, the only Bleiweis-booklet without hint to coaches used on the line.


Branchline Breitengüßbach-Ebern/Maroldsweisach

Opening: 1895/1896

Length: 18,54/33,84 km

Daily traffic: 4 pairs of trains

Rolling stock:

- 2 D VII

- 1 BPostL (18050, delivered 1894)

- 2 CL (18413, 18414, delivered 1894)

- 3 GWL (18727-18729)


Branchline Mellrichstadt-Fladungen

Opening: 1898

Length: 18,5 km

Daily traffic: 4 pairs of trains

Rolling stock:

- 2 D VII

- 2 BPostL (18065, 18066)

- 2 CL with conductor´s department (18444, 18445)

- 2 CL without conductor´s department (18448, 18449)

- 2 GWL (18747, 18748)


Branchline Bamberg-Scheßlitz

Opening: 1908

Length: 14 km

Daily traffic: 3 pairs of trains

Rolling stock:

- PtL 2/2 + D VI

- 2 PPostL

- 2 CL bay 05 (500 cm axle distance) with conductor´s department

- 1 CL without prisoner´s department

- 1 GWL


Well, some questions arise:

- Why were these branchlines equipped with so much rolling stuff? The necessary rolling stock seems to have been there twice or triple.

- Was there a tendency to reduce the rolling stock in the course of the years (triple in 1884, single in 1908)?

- Where were the coaches deposed when they were not needed? At the terminus or at the mainline station? If at the terminus: Where? I can see no space there!

- What do you think, what could have been the rolling stock of the Neustadt-Königshofen line? As wagons with an axle distance of more then 4,5 m were not allowed, we have to look for coaches with connected steering axles ("Verbundlenkachsen").


I would suppose an equipment similar to Haßfurt-Hofheim:

- 2 BPostL (numbers between 1827-1834; drawing Normale 1890, lfd Nr 299)

- 2 CL (numbers between 18374 -18382; drawing Normale 1890, lfd Nr 319)

- 2 GwL


I will be glad about all ideas and hints!


Greetings from the Baltic Sea

Christoph

Pierre B (EMail:) from France on May 29 2002, 12:47 GMT

responded: Christoph, I have never heard of any kits from Röwa, but Pola did make some kits at one time. From what I remember they were very nice, and fully up to the standard of Roco, Fleischmann and trix, so no problems mixing. I don't remember which exact types were made, I just remember that the wheel base was quite short.


Peter :

The Röwa kits were not from the original Röwa range, which mostly went to Roco, although IIRC the odd item found its way to Trix. These were bagged up kits of ex Rai-Mo parts supplied under the BillerBahn/Röwa/Ernst Rudolf Klein names (all at the same address)after Hermann Merker closed Rai-Mo down, which had, itself, evolved from M&F. A few were in ersatz boxes but most were just in polythene bags. Klein seems to have been an interesting character.


Tim Hale (EMail:) from UK on May 29 2002, 20:27 GMT

responded: Pola, Rowa, RaiMo, M&F, BillerBahn, Merker Verlag were all linked at one time but not at the same time.


Peter :


You missed out Heinzel ! IIRC he was a modelmaker and designer who produced under his own name until he went to work for M&F. Some of his stuff appears to have been produced in the DDR, but I don't think it all was. The same models generally appeared in the M&F range although not all, eg the ET88 and the Prussian coaches. I remember his adverts for Prussian 6 wheeler coaches with the later modification to 4 wheelers, losing the centre axle, but those never reappeared and I've never seen any examples of those models, although I do have (once more, after the last one went in my burglary)an ET88 of his.


Cheers


Peter

Hello,

I recently was lucky to buy an old Merker & Fischer coach of an Bavarian i-coach. After comparing the model and its main measures with pictures and measures of my literatur I could identify the model (as I hoped) as a CL bay 90 (drawing 541) with "flat" roof. Here is a picture of the coach:


http://home.t-online.de/home/5200052215 ... Bay_90.htm


Well, I am quite satisfied about this; it is a next step for a a model of a 1893 train from Neustadt to Königshofen.


Greetings from the Baltic Sea

Christoph