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 Post subject: Who says there was an engine bigger than the Big Boy?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2000 2:32 am 
Hi,

Here are the specs, I was wrong on a couple, but anyway...



compound
hp cylinders

diameter 21

stroke 26

no. per set 2

psi 300

65" 48898
mp cylinders

diameter 24

stroke 26

no. per set 2

psi 228

65" 48539
lp cylinders

diameter 30

stroke 32

no. per set 1

psi 225

65" 46058

total t.e.

hp cylinders

65" 97796

mp cylinders

65" 97078

lp cylinders

65" 92116

total t.e.

65" 286990

weight on drivers 700000

foa 2.44 - 2.01


when simple, 348351lbs is produced


Evaporative surface 7000ft

Superheat Area 2500ft

Grate Area 160ft

Boiler Length 22ft

Boiler Diam 9ft

Coal 50t

Water 15000gal

Total mass 820000lbs


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 Post subject: Who says there was an engine bigger than the Big Boy?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2000 11:03 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 29, 1999 6:55 am
Posts: 374
Brad, out of curiosity, what kind of valve gear have you chosen for your 4-10-2+2-10-4 design?


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 Post subject: Who says there was an engine bigger than the Big Boy?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2000 4:45 am 
Walshearts


Why?


Brad


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 Post subject: Who says there was an engine bigger than the Big Boy?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2000 1:15 pm 
N&W´s A, J & Y-6b wasn´t perhaps the biggest, heaviest or so, but

I think these classes of steamlocomotives was the best steamers

ever built. As for the Big Boy it weighed 772.000 pounds, rode on 68

inch drivers developed more than 6.000 horsepower in the 30-42 mph range.

Anyway, the Big Boy was ment to haul its trains uphill at 25 mph and drift

down at 50 mph. In the 25 mph range she had approximately 5.600 horspower,

compare that with the last form of N&W´s 58 inch drivered Y-6 which developed

almost the same drawbar horsepower at the same speed. She was also capable

of the required 50 mph top speed. Even though the N&W´s weighed only 611.530

pounds and being a compound, she was more economical to have. On one percent grades, Big Boy was rated at 4.800 tons, the Y-6, 5.150 tons. As for the

Allegheny´s I don´t think that C&O or VGN ever could use it´s full potential like the N&W did with it´s A´s and Y-6´s. Why don´t we make a comparison between

the A´s and Allegheny´s, like how much they cost build, the cost to have them working on the railroad and so on, just to see who´s the best, I guess that it must have cost the C&O and the VGN a fortune just to have them rolling down

the tracks with their trains, right? You know like maintanance on bridges etc.

Have a really nice day everyone and take care.

Yours very truly Jan-Olov.


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 Post subject: Who says there was an engine bigger than the Big Boy?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2000 6:48 pm 
that is true, same idea applies at 60mph, the Y6b might just get there, but it won't be producing very much hp at all, the Big Boy on the other hand will still be in it's power band.


Brad


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 Post subject: Who says there was an engine bigger than the Big Boy?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2000 7:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 29, 1999 6:55 am
Posts: 374
A corollary question is could the N&W Y6b have done the original Big Boy job, and if so, would it have been more efficient?


I suspect that the answer is in fact that the Y6b could not have been effective in all aspect of BB's original job.


I'm not sure whence came the characterization of BB's job as to haul trains uphill at 25 mile/h and then drift downgrade at 50 mile/h, but even though it's oft quoted, it's not exactly right. BB was designed to take 4000 (short) ton trains up the Wasatch (ruling grade 1.14%) at whatever speed it could manage and then run them fast over the relatively flat country to Green River. I can't imagine that BB (or any steam loco for that matter) was allowed to go down the Wasatch with a train at 50 mile/h. Stopping the train, or even controlling it at that speed might had been a tad difficult. It also seems that BB was designed with eventual wider UP system in mind.


I've never seen any good record of what speed the BBs (or Challengers for that matter) typically ran at on the flat. But I'll risk a guess and say that BB would probably make around 60 mile/h with its 4000 tons - depending of course on those Wyoming winds). Furthermore, it would be quite happy to run continuously at that speed without seriously injuring itself or the track.


Now, the Y6b would probably go up the Wasatch from with 4000 tons just as well as BB. Who knows, it might be faster or take a bigger load - the numbers certainly suggest this possibility. But I very much doubt that the Y-6b would do the second part of the job. Yes, it could make 50 mile/h, but I wonder whether it (or the track) would be really happy running continuously at this speed?


Here I think the published dbhp curves tell the higher-speed story, and support Brad's comment. BB is shown to have 4500 dbhp at 65 mile/h, and with a rough extrapolation, one can assume close to 4000 dbhp at 70 mile/h. The Y-6b is a bit below 3500 dbhp at 45 mile/h, and by extrapolation, around 2500 dbhp at 50 mile/h.


So, the Y-6b is an ideal mountain climber, but has little flexibility for fast running on the flat. BB is probably not quite as a good a mountain climber as the Y-6b, but on the flat will outpace any other 16-drivered articulated without wrecking itself or the track. Each has specific utility related to what it was designed to do.


As a diversion, BBs could take 6000 tons or so from Wasatch summit to Green River. So maybe an effective combination would have been to use a BB with a (modified) Y-6b pusher to get the 6000 tons up the hill, after which BB would go it alone! I doubt, though, that UP would have chosen to buy locos that had such narrow utility as the Y-6b; I think that it would have traded super efficiency at one task for reasonable effectiveness at a range of tasks. I say a modified Y-6b because a higher factor of adhesion (than used by N&W) could well have been desirable for the Utah/Wyoming operating conditions.


But to put all of that in perspective, a bunch of GP9s would do the mountain and flatland jobs equally well, pulling or pushing, and with dynamic brakes would have an immense advantage going down the hills. No to mention far fewer people needed in the backshops, etc. (The study of steam locomotive engineering and application is very interesting, but as soon as you look "outside of the box" (or boiler, perhaps) you can't help noticing that diesels and electrics are at least an order of magnitude better!)


The N&W A/Allegheny comparison has been attempted by Ed King in his book on the N&W A. Build costs are included, but there are no numbers given for relative for track maintenance costs. Still, the C&O was probably conditioned to track damage from steam locos, as the hammer-blow from those T-1 2-10-4s must have been horrendous. (Wasn't better balancing the reason ATSF chose 74" drivers for its production heavy 2-10-4s; you just couldn't do it right with a 69" driver?.)


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 Post subject: Who says there was an engine bigger than the Big Boy?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2000 5:58 am 
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Posts: 536
Location: Suburbs of Philadelphia USA
While scanning thorugh my 1998 "Trains" magazines, I came across an article in, I believe, the November issue about weight coverups by Lima Locomotive Works about the weight of certain 2-8-8-6 Alleghenies hat were delivered to C&O and then to the Virginian railroads. The C&0 designation was H-8. Their stated weight, in the article, was stated as being higher than that of the Big Boy and so were several other characteristics. Any comments??


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 Post subject: Who says there was an engine bigger than the Big Boy?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2000 9:39 am 
Hi,

My comment is a 2-8-8-6? huh?


Seriously though, the H8's were over weight, any more than 420000lbs on their drivers was too much (at 10:40pm I can't really care how much it was) But I know it was more than that.


Brad


You want the max weight on the drivers possible, within axle loads


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 Post subject: Who says there was an engine bigger than the Big Boy?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2000 6:58 pm 
Hey, now we all know that the BB H8 Y6c and Z5 are about the largest ever. Has anyone thought just how far one could go? I would say not much bigger, if people have their way and insist on a 3.75 - 4.25 FOA, A x-10-10-x is about as big as you can go, due to corners, if the axle load is 70000lbs, then max te according to 3.75 is 186666lbs, which is close to the AE class 2-10-10-2.

Now my logic says to have 4 or 5 clinders per set, able to do this because of the long wheel base, and you can shut any of them off, like in the French Atlantics in the early 1900's. So once you are moving, more cylinders can be bought into play, therefore 350000lbs te is not too far off. I of course used a Garratt for my design above, but same principle.


Now with a mallet it is impossible, but with a Garratt it mightn't be, having more sets of wheels. Now the triplex's were a really bad example, but I don't propose anything like the triplexs.


My Garratt/Mallet would have a 4-6-6-4 + 4-6-6-4 arrangement, each set has one inner HP cylinder, and 2 outside LP cylinders, this way the boiler can keep up, with 4x 24x26 cylinders, however, if need be, the 8 outer cylinders can have HP steam fed to them, with the inner cylinders being LP. So extra te is made. So with 840000lbs of adhesive weight, I reckon 420000lbs could be developed with 8HP and 4LP, with 4 HP and 8LP, 350000lbs may be possible.


If the boiler can't cope, remember this is a garratt, another 4ft can be spliced in the middle of the prototype.


A 4-8-8-4 + 4-8-8-4 may even be possible, as Daniel Hoins suggests.


Does anyone know if there is a train that is regular, and will be requiring above 15000hp on a constant basis, maybe an oil train, or some form of drag service, maybe a fast high speed freight, with a 6 coupled wheel arrangement, the wheels can be rather large, and it could still go around corners.


Brad


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 Post subject: Who says there was an engine bigger than the Big Boy?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2000 7:18 pm 
Question,

What do you gentlemen think would have happen with the Y-6b if it had the same

size on its drivers like the BB? What kind of locomotive do you think it would be?

Best regards Jan-Olov.


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 Post subject: Who says there was an engine bigger than the Big Boy?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2000 12:28 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 29, 1999 6:55 am
Posts: 374
Brad, re your question about what might have been done vis-à-vis building more powerful steam locomotives, I think that it needs to be put into a context of time and circumstance. I suspect you're thinking in terms of today, and a situation where you're the chief motive power officer. But I think that today you'd also be wise to consider whether or not advanced traction control techniques could be applied, and also whether or not MU was practicable. That push-pull operation of steam locos was practiced suggests that the answer to the latter question must be yes. So the need for more power could be addressed by MU'ing say 4-8-4+4-8-4 Garratts, rather than getting into the complexities of Mallet-Garratts. (Front engine stability, getting enough of the weight on the front engine units, and length and complexity of steam pipes are three areas of concern.) But up-to-date steam is getting into the world of Porta and Wardale, so I'll quickly stop here before I get in over my head.


An alternative frame for the question is what might have been done in the 1945-50 period had say the diesel locomotive been a decade more retarded than it actually was? Here the constraint is what would the US roads have found acceptable. And it's a fairly safe bet that inside cylinders, Garratts and compounding (other than for low speeds) would have been a very difficult sell, as would FAs below 4. So, the question reduces to: could bigger and more powerful articulateds have been built within the existing loading gauge and generally prevailing axle loading restrictions? Let’s take 70 000 lb maximum and 67 500 lb mean as the axle loading number, and allow that installation of bigger turntables to accommodate longer locos might have been justified on a situational basis.


More power, at the same starting tractive force, was probably available from existing designs like BB, given appropriate detail attention to the whole air/gas/steam cycle, opening out the steam passages, and installing poppet valves. The last-mentioned had a patchy reputation in the USA, but I suspect that this was simply the result of incomplete mechanical development, rather than any fundamental shortcoming. But work elsewhere indicates that poppet valves are worth having. Who knows, with all of this maybe BB could have been taken to around 8000 dbhp.


Dusting off and updating the never-built N&W Y-7 2-8-8-2 simple articulated likely would have resulted in a more potent machine, although probably transgressing the 70 000 lb maximum axle loading a little bit, unless you went for a 4 wheel trailer truck. It's not clear to me at what speed the dynamics of a four-wheel pilot truck become necessary and not just desirable, but forced to a guess, I'll pick somewhere between 50 and 60 mile/h. Oh dear, if we're not careful here, we'll soon back into a N&W-ized BB; we've sort of already gotten to a N&W-ized DMIR 2-8-8-4.


More starting tractive effort at the same axle loading, whether or not with more power, than either of these machines could manage would require moving to an x-10-10-y. But this would be a restricted application machine because of both its rigid wheelbase and its hammer blow. (Lateral motion devices, lightweight rods and better balancing will help, but you can also put these on the x-8-8-y, so the latter will still go faster and bend easier. And with 10-coupled, you still have that huge vertical component of piston thrust to deal with.)


Quick calculations show that you could put 2-10-10-2 running gear, with 63" drivers spaced 67", under the BB without moving either set of cylinders, although ashpan conditions could be marginal. 25.5" x 32" cylinders would give 168 000 lbf TE; FA of 4 at 675 000 lb on drivers. Balance conditions wouldn't be ideal, and the front engine would have severe yawing and rolling forces that might crack even a cast steel bed, but continuous operation at 45 might be feasible. I'm not sure where you could use such a machine, though. Where are there combinations of relatively long grades with few curves, coupled with the absence of opportunity or need for fast (60 mile/h) running? Not Donner or Feather, I think - too many curves. Up the Wasatch maybe, but not along the Wyoming plateau, where speed is needed. Out west, you'd most likely be looking for locomotive runs of at least 500 miles, and maybe 1500 miles.


The VGN AE could be updated using N&W Y-6b proportions suitably extrapolated. I think that the cylinders would come out at 28x36X32" (for 300 lbf/in2 BP), but I'll leave the other calculations for Brad. But with 56 - 58" drivers, balance conditions would be bad, and I don't suppose that much more than 35 mile/h could be expected. So it would be a "grunt" machine for heavy grades, helper work, etc.


Whether the planned N&W Y-7 could have been extrapolated into a 2-10-10-2 without the boiler fouling the loading gauge I don’t know. If so, maybe it would have to be a 2-10-10-4 to keep the axle loading within bounds. And it still couldn't run that fast without pounding the track to pieces. But that, I'd say, is about as big and powerful as could have been achieved around 1950 within the generally accepted boundaries of the time.


So, no great revelations here. For general service, fine tune the existing designs as described above, and if you can, work out MU or some form of synchronized control system so that you can easily pair up BBs, Y-6Bs, etc., or admixtures thereof. Now that should have been doable circa 1950 with air motors for the throttles and cutoff, and maybe some sort of air-operated steam shut-off valve for slip arresting on the trailing unit. To support what I've just said, an air throttle control was used on the Pennsy 6-8-6 turbine, a slip control valve was used on the Pennsy Q-2 (OK, it needed a bit more work to become adequately reliable), and down under in NSW, Australia, rotary air motors were used to provide duplicate (right-hand side, reverse direction) cab control of cutoff on the 60 class Garratts.


Conclusion - weren't the US railroads lucky that the diesel was ready in 1945! - Sorry, Brad. :)))


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 Post subject: Who says there was an engine bigger than the Big Boy?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2000 4:11 am 
Hi,

I wasn't really being serious about a mallet garratt, my mention of daniel hoins 4-8-8-4 + 4-8-8-4 should have told you something


Right now I am in a fight with about 7 UP public relations people over the matter, and they agree with my 4-10-2 + 2-10-4. They think it is about the best possible idea, with the outer axles having specially designed rods, that allow it to "negotiate curves like a x-8-y loco." My design was going to have 65" drivers, a reasonable mix between speed and power.


I think that a 60 class should be used first, to get the basic ideas and concepts right, then a protype should be built of my 4-10-2 + 2-10-4


By the way, I know of 7 locos that can be mu'ed fro other steam engines, and deisels, I don't know how, but I know that you can do it.


Brad


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 Post subject: Who says there was an engine bigger than the Big Boy?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2000 9:15 pm 
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Posts: 374
Reverting to Jan-Olov's question about a Y-6b with BB sized driving wheels, I'm not sure that it would have been practicable to put 68" drivers under the this loco. But for the sake of debate, let's assume that it could have been done, and consider the outcome.


In a simplistic sense, the power curve would have been stretched to the right on the graph. So, looking at the curve published in the Jeffries book, the peak power point would move from around 25 mile/h to around 30 mile/h. The 3200 dbhp at 45 mile/h point would move out to around 53 mile/h. And my previous extrapolation to 2500 dbhp at 50 mile/h would move to near 60 mile/h.


One would expect the machinery friction at any given speed to be lower with the larger drivers, but it's still possible that the power required to move the loco at 30 mile/h (68" drivers) will be higher than that required to move it at 25 mile/h (58" drivers). So as well as stretching to the right, there might be some overall depression of the db power curve. But remember that in real life it could well be a bit different.


In a mechanical sense, the top speed might have been increased by a bit more than the ratio of driver sizes (68" to 58") suggests because the larger drivers would allow better balancing. But in the case of the Y-6b, the limiting factor is likely getting the steam into and out of those big low pressure cylinders. Low temperature, "half-used" steam is more viscous (less lively if you like) than superheated high temperature steam, so it just doesn't move as fast. The big-drivered Y-6b might be pushed to 60 mile/h, at which speed we have estimated 2500 dbhp, whereas the Big Boy curve published in Kratville shows just short of 5000 dbhp. Whether the Y-6b low pressure front end could have been opened up even more I don't know, but I understand that N&W had done a pretty good job in this regard with its standpipe arrangement; there might not have been physical room to accommodate even bigger steam passages.


So, on first pass, you couldn't turn the Y-6b into a BB simply by fitting 68" drivers. And generally it doesn't seem worth doing. The extra 10 mile/h in top speed might not have a whole lot of utility if for fast freight you want a loco that can "cruise" comfortably at 60 mile/h. But it would probably become a sluggish machine in the lower speed range where the standard Y-6b shines. Or in other words, bigger drivers could move the Y-6b into a kind of "no mans land" vis-à-vis its practical utility.


Be very cautious with the above analysis though. It's very simplistic, and I'm very much a dilettante where steam locomotive technology is concerned. (Electrics and diesels are so much easier to understand!) Still, I don’t mind "chancing my arm" now and again - nothing ventured, nothing gained, and often, a quick way to get the right answer is to articulate (no pun intended) the wrong one in a forum like this!


Now, maybe Brad can add a comment or two!


Cheers.


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 Post subject: Who says there was an engine bigger than the Big Boy?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2000 3:57 am 
Hi,

Yeah you are right, thats why my engines have 18x21in to 24x26in cylinders, as higher speeds won't drop power rapidly. My 4-10-2 + 2-10-4 has a large cylinder in the middle, but that would never be used above 50mph.

Brad


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 Post subject: Who says there was an engine bigger than the Big Boy?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2000 9:16 am 
Brad, your quoted statistics on your 4-10-2+2-10-4 monstrosity stated that the boiler would be 9' in diameter and 22' long. From all the info I have on this subject it sounds to me as though you are just building another Virginian triplex! even at your stated 300PSI there is no way a boiler that small could produce anywhere near enough steam to feed all those cylinders. The closest thing to this loco in terms of probable steam requirements is the VGN's triplex, yet you have fitted it with a smaller boiler when the biggest problem with the triplex was that it's boiler couldn't produce enough steam. Even the VGN's AGs, which used less steam than the triplex, and were actually a successful design had 108" diameter boilers over 50' long!(probubly over 60'). Basicly I don't belive that this loco would develop anywhere near the amount of steam needed to keep it moving even with a more conventional cylinder setup, let along the unorthodox arrangement you propose. I think the only thing I can say to this the same thing the president of the VGN most likely said to the sup. of motive power after tests were begun on the triplex. "What were you thinking?!?".

Now, having thoroughly bashed your credibility as a locomotive designer I would like to compliment you and everyone elce who has posted on here for such excelent deductions on the subject of which locos were the largest and most powerful (yes even the ones who fell for the berlinerwerke's apochrophia page) This is a subject that greatly interests me, especally concidering that my favorite roads are the VGN and N&W. I have to admit, some of the information posted here on those roads' locomotives was somewhat inaccurate, but I have forgotten most of the discrepancys allready and really don't feel like criticising you people anymore than I allready have! Anyway, this post has gone on long enough.


Looking forward to seeing where elce this discussion may lead...


-Aaron


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 Post subject: Who says there was an engine bigger than the Big Boy?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2000 12:11 am 
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Posts: 647
Location: Segeltorp (Stockholm) Sweden
YES I know this discussion is about steam locomotives but I just have to share this picture with you.

http://jerrysharp.railfan.net/prbtrip/prb999.jpg


Get in touch with with Jerry if you want to use his picture at

http://jerrysharp.railfan.net/

_________________
S&HRR
Kenny


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 Post subject: Who says there was an engine bigger than the Big Boy?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2000 5:01 am 
Hi,

That was actually a typo, it is actually 32ft.

That measurement is from the back of the smokebox, to the front of the firebox. The 50' measurement is from the front of the smokebox to the back of the firebox. BIG differance.

Also, the back set of cylinders exhausted at the back of the loco, not through the smokebox. This was the main reason for the triplexs lack of steam. Not enough draft was created.

My loco only has 2x 21x26" HP cylinders, the rest are MP/LP.

Feeding all cylinders at HP would creat a big shortage of steam, but for getting a train up a hill, or getting it off the line, it is not that important.

Trust me on this one, I have thought about the loco a lot.

Brad


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 Post subject: Who says there was an engine bigger than the Big Boy?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2000 8:27 am 
ok,now that makes sence! just as a comparison the same dimention on an early USRA heavy 2-8-8-2 was 24' with a 8'8" diameter boiler so logically a boiler 32' between firebox and smokebox and 9' in diameter should be able to meet the needs of an 4-10-2+2-10-4 wheel arrangement, which for cylindar power and steam requirements should be approxamately the same as the VGN's 2-10-10-2s. I wish I had a diagram of the AE, but I don't. The closest thing I have is the diagram of the 2-8-8-2 but in terms of general boiler dimentions the AE is not much different from the USA (the vgn's class designation for the 2-8-8-2 I was talking about). The boiler was, I belive, 6 inches wider (110" or 9'2") but the length between the smokebox and firebox (judging from a comparison of photographs of the USA and the AE and based on known driver diameter (57") and the relation of the locations of the front and rear drivers to the front of the smokebox and the rear of the firebox respectively) was only 27'.


Anyway, given all this, and the higher boiler pressure you speak of (300 PSI vs. 215 for the AE) I'd say that your boiler should be more than capable of providing enough steam. I stand corrected. But I would have been correct had you not corrected yourself!


One other thing though... in your statistics for the loco you said that the HP cylinders opperated at 300 Psi, the MP at 228, and the LP at 225... what makes you think that you would only lose 3 PSI between the MP and the LP??? I think that if you come up with a more logical pressure drop and then redo your calculations you may be surprised that your loco doesn't produce anywhere near what you previously predicted.


-Aaron


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 Post subject: Who says there was an engine bigger than the Big Boy?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2000 8:47 am 
ok,now that makes sence! just as a comparison the same dimention on an early USRA heavy 2-8-8-2 was 24' with a 8'8" diameter boiler so logically a boiler 32' between firebox and smokebox and 9' in diameter should be able to meet the needs of an 4-10-2+2-10-4 wheel arrangement, which for cylindar power and steam requirements should be approxamately the same as the VGN's 2-10-10-2s. I wish I had a diagram of the AE, but I don't. The closest thing I have is the diagram of the 2-8-8-2 but in terms of general boiler dimentions the AE is not much different from the USA (the vgn's class designation for the 2-8-8-2 I was talking about). The boiler was, I belive, 6 inches wider (110" or 9'2") but the length between the smokebox and firebox (judging from a comparison of photographs of the USA and the AE and based on known driver diameter (57") and the relation of the locations of the front and rear drivers to the front of the smokebox and the rear of the firebox respectively) was only 27'.


Anyway, given all this, and the higher boiler pressure you speak of (300 PSI vs. 215 for the AE) I'd say that your boiler should be more than capable of providing enough steam. I stand corrected. But I would have been correct had you not corrected yourself!


One other thing though... in your statistics for the loco you said that the HP cylinders opperated at 300 Psi, the MP at 228, and the LP at 225... what makes you think that you would only lose 3 PSI between the MP and the LP??? I think that if you come up with a more logical pressure drop and then redo your calculations you may be surprised that your loco doesn't produce anywhere near what you previously predicted.


-Aaron


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 Post subject: Who says there was an engine bigger than the Big Boy?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2000 7:22 pm 
Hi,

The fact that 2x 24x26 are feeding 1x 30x32


now the areas of those cylinders:

pix24x24x26x2 = 94000sq in

pix30x30x32 = 90500sq in


now Chapelon was able to have 95% steam pressure feeding into LP cylinders, so

.95 x 94000 = 89300


now 89300/90500 is 1.01343, which is the differance in effective size.

So 228/1.01343 = 224.978psi.


Now 225psi steam might not want to leave the MP cylinders too rapidly if there is only 3psi differance, but remember that 300psi is pushing the steam through more than quick enough!


Brad


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