WorldRailFans

Poor Running of Older Liliput 4-axle Passenger Cars

Over the past year I have acquired a few of Liliput's older bogie passenger cars and most of them suffer from constant derailments. I have checked everything I can think of - making sure the bogies pivot freely, that the wheels turn freely, that the coupling mechanism moves as it should, checking for free movement of the sliding steps that allow the car to negotiate turns, etc. I have lubricated any moving part that I could.


Does anyone have any thoughts on what can be done to remedy this? Do they suffer from being too light? Should I try new wheel sets? Or, did I just acquire someone else's headache? Especially the Rheingold cars, these are very nice models and I'd really like to use them.

One possibility is "wheel slop". Are the wheels so loose in the axleboxes that the journals sit on the rails? I have had a couple of older Liliput cars where the plastic in the trucs wears badly and the axles eventually wear their way up the axleboxes so that eventually the frames can touch the rails.

Well, John, I've checked them just now. No, none seem to have this problem. The bogie frames aren't riding low or anything. I checked for excessive 'play' in the wheels - seem to be ok.


Now, the coupler heads, which have a small centering spring, don't have very much lateral movement, but nothing that seems to be binding, so I assume they are they should be. I guess a wheel guage might be needed to check for flange depth and make sure the wheels are not out of guage.


Thanks, John.

Steve,

Even if the NEM standards are not the same as the NMRA standards I have found the NMRA track and wheel gauge to be one of the most valuable tools to ensure good running. I even carry one with me all the time.

Use it on all your cars to find out just how much "off" a wheel can be but still work.

Kenny

Yes, I have the guage - loaned it to a friend. Hadn't used it in months, and now that I need it...well, you know how it goes.


I am thinking about taking off the steps that slide from side to side for curve clearance and see if that helps any.

Not to be rude or insulting, but have you checked all the track to see that the transition is as smooth as possible from one rail to the next? Just a thought... I have a large number of old Liliput passenger cars, but no layout, so I'm just looking for information too.

Just a few thoughts from a long-time Liliput collector: If the cars are VERY old, then there is a slight chance that the wheel flanges are not yet dimensioned according to NEM (2-rail DC operation) standards. If you run out-of-the-box Liliput cars on Marklin track, then you should replace their wheelsets with the «3-L WS» sets which were specially produced by Liliput. Another possibility is that the little «fly-away» spring which centers the couplers is a bit to tight and thus causes derailments in curves. The fourth variety (wearing out of the plastic axleboxes) has been correctly pointed out above. A fifth illness only applies to the Swiss lightweight coaches (875.., 876.., 877.., 878..) - if you don't have any of these, I needn't mention the cure here . Sixth possibility: Is the screw of the bogie/truck perhaps too tight? In this case, you might try to insert a little metal "distance ring" (are they called "washers" in American English?) between the bogie/truck and/or the body or the screw.


If nothing helps, sell the cars to someone who doesn't run them .

John - not insulting at all, but it is only the Liliput cars that are doing this. Older ROCO and Fleischmann run fine.


Stefan - I checked everything you mentioned. Yes, washer is the correct word (Where did we ever come up with it??) and all of them already have one. One bogie was too tight and did not pivot freely, so I sanded the hole a bit to free it up.


Now, the centering spring is the only thing I have not done anything with except a light lubrication. I suppose they could be too stiff and not allowing the coupler head to move freely, thus causing the couplers to pull back to the center position too much. How would one loosen them?

This is a job which you should only perform when: a) you are in a good mood, b) you have a bottle of your favorite drink handy to wash down your anger, and c) you are sitting in an environment where you will be likely to find the spring when it flies away .


If you look at the car from the underside, you will note that the centering spring "comes out" of a very small hole and then curves around a square "head". You can simply bend the curved part out of its groove with a small screwdriver of with tweezers. At this moment, everything falls apart, and you can release the tension/stiffness of the spring by bending it slightly apart (do not apply too much force, otherwise it won't be useable any more).


Try to re-assemble the whole stuff without losing the spring. If you manage to do this on at least three cars in a row without losing one single spring, you are eligible for the Grand Liliput Spring-Mounting Prize . BTW, I still have a few dozen of the springs in my spare-parts box, so don't worry!

Stefan, I have those Liliput 875, 876, 877... Could you please tell us what is their particular "illness?" As far as those Liliput coupler springs are concerned, I think if you can put one in without ever losing your temper you are a saint.

Sith, these cars are equipped with an unusual kind of plastic "centering" mechanism which is supposed to guide the couplers and also render sort of a primitive, early-age "Kurzkupplungseffekt". Furthermore, the wheels tend to "scrape" on the underbody of the car. Various "cut-away" schemes have been described to cure the almost constant derailments of these cars. However, the only really effective (if not very cheap) technique is to simply replace the entire undercarriage with one from the new China production runs. They should fit because the mounting of the bodies is identical to the Austrian-made cars.

If your Liliput cars are REALLY old, there's a quick fix that might work.


Pop the wheelsets out of the bogies. One wheel will be insulated, mounted to the axle through an insulating bushing. GENTLY twist this wheel outwards on the axle until you've opened up the back to back spacing of the wheels so that the inside faces of the wheels are approximately the same a contemporary RP25 wheelset.


Sounds crude and low-tech -- but within the past week I modified four ancient Liliput bogies from the late 1960s / early 1970s, and they now run happily on both Peco universal and Atlas Code 100 points.

This is an old thread with a new knot. I got hold of the ROCO #40344 close coupler adaptors. Does anyone have experience mounting these to Liliput-Austria coaches? Yes, I would like to put them on the Rheingolds.


It looks like I can mount them to the sliding piece that has the steps on them, but, of course, securing this piece to the chassis so it won't slide anymore. In just "eyeballing", it looks right.


Anyone ever done this?